Rocket scientist meets Danish Viking
Refugee and immigrant women can be unskilled, difficult to employ and in danger of becoming a burden to the social system of their destination country or of falling through its cracks into poverty. Or they can be highly educated, a potential asset to their chosen country of residence, yet unable to penetrate the labour market because of social or cultural barriers.
This was the case of Desiree, a bright Brazilian scientist who found herself at loose ends in Copenhagen, Denmark. Until she met Catharina, a mentor under an innovative programme run by KVINFO, the Danish Centre for Gender Equality and Diversity.
KVINFO has been pairing up refugee and immigrant women with women who are active in the Danish labour market since 2002. To date, more than 6,000 women have participated in the programme, and the network is reckoned to be the largest of its kind in the world. The programme has been awarded several prizes and has inspired similar initiatives both in Denmark and abroad.
The OSCE is starting a project in January 2013, funded by Norway and Austria so far, to replicate the KVINFO model in the OSCE region by producing a guidebook and implementation materials. When it comes to people, every case is different. Mentoring helps build secure lives, one person at a time. But its potential to multiply is boundless.
Catharina, ethnologist and human resources expert
I’m Danish and I live in Copenhagen. By education I am an ethnologist but I work as a human resources business partner at Danish Rail. A friend of mine was a mentor with KVINFO and mentioned that this was something I might like. I would meet interesting people, it was fun and since I had lived abroad and had an academic background, it would simply suit me. So I thought, “OK, I‘ll just go to one of the evening introduction meetings, and see if I have anything to offer.” I saw that I might be able to give advice about choosing a career or preparing for a job interviews. The Danish have very special demands on how people should approach a job interview. I had never really thought about that before, so this was a useful reflection on my own work.
After I was in the system, nothing really happened until one day I got a call, saying there was someone not from my field, but who might be a good match. When I heard those first words about Desiree, I thought to myself, “What can I possibly contribute to this? She is a rocket scientist! What can we talk about? She must be so much cleverer than I am.” I felt quite intimidated and the same time I was very curious, so I said, “OK, let’s go for it.” And I met up with this wonderful person, Desiree. It was a meeting between this big Danish Viking – myself – and this open Brazilian person. She is everything everybody actually wants to be: calm, yet energetic, and very accomplished. But, as we soon found out, everybody needs someone to talk to, and everyone can benefit from being challenged on a different level than when talking to friends or family.
Prior to meeting Desiree, I prepared by setting some standards for myself as a mentor. I was very clear about giving advice rather than a command. It was up to Desiree to make her own decisions. My role was more to be curious about what she wanted. From there I could come up with suggestions as to how to go about it achieving it, broaden her mind about what decisions she could possibly make or what options she had to choose from. It would be up to her to follow them or not.
Desiree was very quick to understand the things I didn’t say but probably meant.
We talked a lot about building a network. In Brazil she could easily approach people but in Denmark she had the feeling that there was a kind of a filter she had to pass through. My advice to her was to use her personality to open that door, because she was different and she could use it to her advantage. Sometimes you find yourself in situations where you may need to approach somebody, and you might feel hesitant about appearing too forward, especially when you are a woman. Sometimes you just need somebody to give you a push, to let you see the possibilities that are already there.
Desiree found her dream job very quickly. But we’ve agreed to continue. We still talk about career choices and about the future. After a year of mentoring I have also reflected about my career, and what I want. So it has gone from being a mentor/mentee to more of a mentor/mentor relationship. The untold truth is that as a mentor, you gain so much. You get insight about your own culture, about who you are as a person, as a citizen, as a woman.
Desiree, astrophysicist
When I was a second- year physics student at the University of Sao Paolo, I did some work in a laboratory that was collaborating with Danish scientists. It turned out that one of the Danish post-doctoral researchers was a very nice guy and we became a couple. A few months later he had to move back to Denmark. I was busy with my education and had no intention of stopping that, not even for love. But eventually we decided that I could transfer my studies to Denmark and complete my Physics degree there. In 2004, two years after we first met, I was accepted at the University of Copenhagen.
I had already been living in Denmark for a couple of years when I met Catharina. My relationship with my boyfriend hadn’t worked out. But I had already become a Master’s student in Astronomy at the University of Copenhagen and did not want to leave that and move back to Brazil.
I had no financial support from the government like the Danish students did, so I worked on the side, doing unqualified jobs like helping passengers at the airport or babysitting, just to cover my expenses.
Then a Brazilian friend, who had also moved to Denmark for her studies, told me that she had gotten a lot out of the KVINFO mentor programme and recommended that I sign up for it. I was about to finish my Master’s at the time and was worried about whether or not I would get a PhD, whether or not I would find employment. So I decided to apply for a mentor, too.
By the time KVINFO contacted me, I was already halfway through my PhD studies in Astrophysics. I filled in the online form on the website, indicating that I was looking for someone with academic education, something related to science, but who was working in the industry, since I wanted to make a transition from academic life to a position in the private sector. People kept telling me that I was highly qualified and didn’t need any help. But I had no idea how I would go about looking for a job if I had to. I later learned that the people at KVINFO found it hard to find a match for me. Finally, I was matched with Catharina. I was told that she has a different background from the one I was looking for, but could maybe help me in another way. She was not a scientist at all. She was working in recruitment.
I will never forget the first time I met Catharina. We met in Ricco’s Kaffebar by the Frederiksberg metro station. Catharina had an agenda prepared, which was great. She spent two hours asking me questions. She made me feel comfortable and relaxed, but at the same time she was very professional. I remember thinking at the time how precious that was. I had just spent two hours with a specialist who gave me advice. How much would I normally have to pay for a consultancy like this, which people like Catharina were willing to do for free? Even if we had never met again, I would have been grateful for those two hours for the rest of my life.
We did meet many times again, in that café and later in others. My goal with Catharina was to expand my network, get to know people who could potentially help me or give me advice. It was not that Catharina introduced me to anyone or helped me directly with getting a job. She didn’t tell me what to do. She listened to me and gave me an honest and professional opinion. She supported me a lot, and that is very important when you feel insecure. Catharina was an excellent mentor.
In the end, I got the job I really wanted. I’m working as a postdoctoral researcher at the Technical University of Denmark. So I would say the work Catharina and I did together has changed my life. It made it possible for me to stay in Denmark. The main points of mentoring are confidence building and personal development. After every meeting with Catharina, I went out feeling that I could get any job and do whatever I wanted. There were so many possibilities. It was very empowering. It is good to talk to a Dane who knows how the society works and to hear the true opinion of a local person.
I believe so much in the KVINFO programme that I have become a mentor myself. Now when I meet Catharina, she mentors me on being a mentor. I am very happy to be able to give back what I was offered.
Catharina and Desiree first met through the KVINFO mentorship programme in May 2010 and they are still meeting.